Because that's what happens when the mind tries to reconcile conflicting sets of memories. That is to say, experiences that are both yours — yet not yours.
but its not like i remember anything those other mes did shit if i did thatd be messed up would i have to remember every goddamn doomed daves shit timeline??? fuck
Well, that IS the question, isn't it. Were you not bombarded with the memories of those...other Daves, as you so aptly put it? You weren't left perceiving both sets at once?
naw actually thats never been the case for me even when i was running around as thirteen of me at once the only way id know anything if all those loops were stable is if a future me told me and hed only tell me because hed already been the me that got told that kind of self fulfilling shit is annoying so i avoided it whenever possible and then like in doomed timeline situations well usually the whole point of me turning up from one of those was to give me just enough information not to do whatever idiot thing would fuck everything up so they didnt usually get the chance to impart much more than that hm i guess rose remembers shit from davesprites timeline but i dont know exactly how she did that besides it having something to do with our dreamselves
...All right, I'll confess, you started to lose me somewhere around "thirteen of me".
Though I suppose the ability to reconcile all of that has something to do with your time powers? If that's the case, then perhaps you do simply have some sort of natural immunity to the phenomenon. Perhaps you simply manufacture memories at an extraordinary rate, preserving your mind from the stress of trying to perceive thirteen conflicting sets of memories at once.
why would my brain get other memories anyway though i mean im me but once theres another me that i can perceive hes by definition an other isnt he? were the same guy but no longer living the same existence
Yes, thank you. It served me very well while I was at Cambridge.
In any event, let's begin with a few presumptions about this diagram. Let's stipulate for the sake of discussion that the black line in the center is "the universe".
[WELL JEEZ, ROBERT, JUST LEAP RIGHT INTO IT, WHY DON'T YOU.]
Let's also assume that Dave 1, in blue, is the Dave that corresponds to that universe. Which is to say, in the natural state of things, there is for every discrete universe a single discrete Dave that corresponds to that universe. Yes?
sure that all makes sense so far so the blue line and the red line are different possibilities for the black universe line which i guess id normally call the alpha timeline? no wait the blue line is one me and the red line is another me and they both correspond to the universe line? if so thats a very different way of conceptualizing this stuff than im used to
No, no, you're getting ahead of yourself. For every universe (black line), there is a single Dave. If you'd like to call him the Alpha Dave for the sake of your understanding, that's perfectly fine, but be careful not to apply assumptions to that Alpha Dave that aren't part of the thought experiment.
Now, then. For this given universe (black line), Dave 1 (Alpha Dave) makes a given decision at the juncture we've called the Divergence Point. For ease of comprehension, let's assign the outcome of his answer to something simple and polar — the answer "yes".
Therefore, in this particular universe, Alpha Dave reaches the Divergence Point, is presented with a choice, and answers "yes". This is where the visual grows a bit deceptive, because as rendered, his divergence is shown by a deviation upward. But don't be fooled by that, because Alpha Dave's line still maps perfectly onto the black line of the universe IN ACTUALITY, because being the Alpha Dave means that all of Alpha Dave's decisions are the "correct" decisions for that given universe.
Magnificent. Then let's update our diagram a bit — I understand this may seem tedious in terms of laying the groundwork, but we're quickly coming to the point.
Now then, as you can see, we've altered the black "universe" line somewhat to better reflect the way that each individual universe tracks to a particular Dave's decisions. That's because according to the theory of infinite universes, there DO EXIST both of those universes, separate and discrete from each other; in Dave 1's universe, all of Dave 1's decisions are the "correct" decisions for that universe, and in Dave 2's universe, all of Dave 2's decisions are "correct" for that universe.
In summation, every Dave IS the "Alpha Dave" to his own universe (Daveiverse?), which means that the determination of a Dave being an Alpha Dave or not must be considered RELATIVE to the universe he is standing in.
Dave 1 is only the Alpha Dave of his own universe. In Dave 2's universe, Dave 1 is an other, because his decisions do not track seamlessly to the decisions that the universe defines as "Dave's Decisions" (aka Dave 2's decisions, because this is Dave 2's universe in which he is the Alpha Dave to that universe).
alright i have no objections to any of these premises and the new diagram clears up what i was confused about before im down for the next step if you are
Excellent. We're coming to the crux of the matter.
Now, for the purposes of discussion, let's deal only with Dave 1's universe, or the universe in which the Alpha Timeline dictates that "Dave" chose "yes" at our marked point of divergence. As you can see, his decisions are still tracking accordingly with the universe.
However, let's now suppose that Dave 2 leaves his universe and jumps into Dave 1's universe. This is where Dave 2 will begin to have a problem, because:
At any given point on the timeline past the divergence point, Dave 2's internal memories of his experiences will conflict with what the universe dictates his experience "should be". At the juncture point, Dave 2 chose "no" — but the universe dictates that "Dave chose yes".
At this point, what follows is a conflict, in which the universe impresses memories of experiences upon Dave 2 that differ from the experiences that Dave 2 remembers from his own universe. Or, put another way, a given universe recognizes only one Dave, and will therefore treat all Daves within that universe as the Alpha Dave, regardless of whether that Dave IS the Alpha Dave or not.
Thus, Universe 1 treats Dave 1 as the Alpha Dave (which he is), and as there is no conflict between Dave 1 and the universe's treatment of him, Dave 1 remains unscathed. However, Universe 1 ALSO treats Dave 2 as the Alpha Dave (which he is not), because for every universe there is only one discrete Dave, and therefore all Daves within that universe must by extension be That Dave.
But Dave 2 is not the Alpha Dave, despite the universe treating him as such. Thus, Dave 2 is now bombarded with two divergent sets of memories and experiences, both of which are "correct" — even though the nature of a yes/no decision is that both cannot be "correct" simultaneously.
Dave 2 is therefore left to reconcile the experience of having chosen both yes and no at the same juncture, remembering events that he both did and did not do. The human mind is not equipped to handle that level of juxtaposition, and the negative effects of the experience on the mind are usually both immediate and dramatic.
It's a largely theoretical field of study, I'm afraid; as there've not been many proven cases of individuals leaping into parallel universes and experiencing the effects of that juxtaposition, we've only really established what we can, and hypothesized by extension about the rest.
But my preliminary guess would be, if your immunity to the phenomenon is simply a natural condition of your universe, then it may also follow that the immunity is a constant in EVERY universe. If that's the case, then part of what makes a Dave a Dave to begin with is the fact that he can navigate parallel universes as he pleases with impunity.
...Which is FASCINATING to consider, if that's truly the case.
thats one possible reason though i think thats less a defining daveristic and more a feature native to any sburb or sgrub player our set of universes were at a really primary level interconnected and interdependent and we all did our fair share of shuffling around from timeline to timeline and/or world to world maybe coming from a universe whose parameters allow for multiple instances of a single variable (eg a dave or a potted plant) to exist simultaneously at least temporarily means that my existence doesnt feel that pressure to conform to any given universes alpha dave
i also dont think ruby city is necessarily a real universe it feels more like a "space" between real constructs of time and space than a proper world all of its own you get me? so i dont think it has its own alpha dave or has the ability to record what an alpha dave should be and thus cant force that alpha daveness on any daves who show up
Actually, it makes a great deal of sense — and also explains why the phenomenon doesn't appear to be in effect here at all. If a given universe HAS no parameters to define a Dave, then it follows that there are no parameters to impress upon any Dave that enters into it.
However, the part I find curious is that as this city behaves like an empty container, that also means it's not recording a history to impress upon any subsequent iterations of you. You're not being bombarded with memories of interactions with people that you never conducted, even though a different version of you did, are you?
nope the closest thing to that ive experienced is when one of those people talks about conversations they never had with me and thats just your garden variety socioexistential awkwardness but im also used to that what with all my time travel
yeah i showed her some of what i can do but mostly on the stable time loop side of things we havent gone over doomed timelines and how those work for me im not sure she knows i can do those too if im not careful
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why would i
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shit if i did thatd be messed up
would i have to remember every goddamn doomed daves shit timeline??? fuck
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actually thats never been the case for me
even when i was running around as thirteen of me at once the only way id know anything if all those loops were stable is if a future me told me
and hed only tell me because hed already been the me that got told
that kind of self fulfilling shit is annoying so i avoided it whenever possible
and then like
in doomed timeline situations
well usually the whole point of me turning up from one of those was to give me just enough information not to do whatever idiot thing would fuck everything up so
they didnt usually get the chance to impart much more than that
hm i guess rose remembers shit from davesprites timeline but i dont know exactly how she did that besides it having something to do with our dreamselves
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Though I suppose the ability to reconcile all of that has something to do with your time powers? If that's the case, then perhaps you do simply have some sort of natural immunity to the phenomenon. Perhaps you simply manufacture memories at an extraordinary rate, preserving your mind from the stress of trying to perceive thirteen conflicting sets of memories at once.
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i mean
im me
but once theres another me that i can perceive hes by definition an other isnt he?
were the same guy but no longer living the same existence
1/2
Here, just a tick, let me try to map this out.
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All right, to begin with, can you see this diagram?
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dude you have very nice handwriting
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In any event, let's begin with a few presumptions about this diagram. Let's stipulate for the sake of discussion that the black line in the center is "the universe".
[WELL JEEZ, ROBERT, JUST LEAP RIGHT INTO IT, WHY DON'T YOU.]
Let's also assume that Dave 1, in blue, is the Dave that corresponds to that universe. Which is to say, in the natural state of things, there is for every discrete universe a single discrete Dave that corresponds to that universe. Yes?
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so the blue line and the red line are different possibilities for the black universe line
which i guess id normally call the alpha timeline?
no wait
the blue line is one me and the red line is another me and they both correspond to the universe line?
if so thats a very different way of conceptualizing this stuff than im used to
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Now, then. For this given universe (black line), Dave 1 (Alpha Dave) makes a given decision at the juncture we've called the Divergence Point. For ease of comprehension, let's assign the outcome of his answer to something simple and polar — the answer "yes".
Therefore, in this particular universe, Alpha Dave reaches the Divergence Point, is presented with a choice, and answers "yes". This is where the visual grows a bit deceptive, because as rendered, his divergence is shown by a deviation upward. But don't be fooled by that, because Alpha Dave's line still maps perfectly onto the black line of the universe IN ACTUALITY, because being the Alpha Dave means that all of Alpha Dave's decisions are the "correct" decisions for that given universe.
Following so far?
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thats how i understand alpha dave works
so what about dave 2
1/2
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Now then, as you can see, we've altered the black "universe" line somewhat to better reflect the way that each individual universe tracks to a particular Dave's decisions. That's because according to the theory of infinite universes, there DO EXIST both of those universes, separate and discrete from each other; in Dave 1's universe, all of Dave 1's decisions are the "correct" decisions for that universe, and in Dave 2's universe, all of Dave 2's decisions are "correct" for that universe.
In summation, every Dave IS the "Alpha Dave" to his own universe (Daveiverse?), which means that the determination of a Dave being an Alpha Dave or not must be considered RELATIVE to the universe he is standing in.
Dave 1 is only the Alpha Dave of his own universe. In Dave 2's universe, Dave 1 is an other, because his decisions do not track seamlessly to the decisions that the universe defines as "Dave's Decisions" (aka Dave 2's decisions, because this is Dave 2's universe in which he is the Alpha Dave to that universe).
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i have no objections to any of these premises
and the new diagram clears up what i was confused about before
im down for the next step if you are
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Now, for the purposes of discussion, let's deal only with Dave 1's universe, or the universe in which the Alpha Timeline dictates that "Dave" chose "yes" at our marked point of divergence. As you can see, his decisions are still tracking accordingly with the universe.
However, let's now suppose that Dave 2 leaves his universe and jumps into Dave 1's universe. This is where Dave 2 will begin to have a problem, because:
At any given point on the timeline past the divergence point, Dave 2's internal memories of his experiences will conflict with what the universe dictates his experience "should be". At the juncture point, Dave 2 chose "no" — but the universe dictates that "Dave chose yes".
At this point, what follows is a conflict, in which the universe impresses memories of experiences upon Dave 2 that differ from the experiences that Dave 2 remembers from his own universe. Or, put another way, a given universe recognizes only one Dave, and will therefore treat all Daves within that universe as the Alpha Dave, regardless of whether that Dave IS the Alpha Dave or not.
Thus, Universe 1 treats Dave 1 as the Alpha Dave (which he is), and as there is no conflict between Dave 1 and the universe's treatment of him, Dave 1 remains unscathed. However, Universe 1 ALSO treats Dave 2 as the Alpha Dave (which he is not), because for every universe there is only one discrete Dave, and therefore all Daves within that universe must by extension be That Dave.
But Dave 2 is not the Alpha Dave, despite the universe treating him as such. Thus, Dave 2 is now bombarded with two divergent sets of memories and experiences, both of which are "correct" — even though the nature of a yes/no decision is that both cannot be "correct" simultaneously.
Dave 2 is therefore left to reconcile the experience of having chosen both yes and no at the same juncture, remembering events that he both did and did not do. The human mind is not equipped to handle that level of juxtaposition, and the negative effects of the experience on the mind are usually both immediate and dramatic.
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ok i see
thats really clear thank you for the visual aids
i think theres a couple reasons it doesnt work like that with me/where i come from
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But my preliminary guess would be, if your immunity to the phenomenon is simply a natural condition of your universe, then it may also follow that the immunity is a constant in EVERY universe. If that's the case, then part of what makes a Dave a Dave to begin with is the fact that he can navigate parallel universes as he pleases with impunity.
...Which is FASCINATING to consider, if that's truly the case.
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though i think thats less a defining daveristic and more a feature native to any sburb or sgrub player
our set of universes were at a really primary level interconnected and interdependent and we all did our fair share of shuffling around from timeline to timeline and/or world to world
maybe coming from a universe whose parameters allow for multiple instances of a single variable (eg a dave or a potted plant) to exist simultaneously at least temporarily means that my existence doesnt feel that pressure to conform to any given universes alpha dave
i also dont think ruby city is necessarily a real universe
it feels more like a "space" between real constructs of time and space than a proper world all of its own you get me?
so i dont think it has its own alpha dave or has the ability to record what an alpha dave should be and thus cant force that alpha daveness on any daves who show up
does that make any sense
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However, the part I find curious is that as this city behaves like an empty container, that also means it's not recording a history to impress upon any subsequent iterations of you. You're not being bombarded with memories of interactions with people that you never conducted, even though a different version of you did, are you?
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the closest thing to that ive experienced is when one of those people talks about conversations they never had with me and thats just your garden variety socioexistential awkwardness
but im also used to that what with all my time travel
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I assume you've spoken to Rosalind about that before. She's a fair hand at keeping track of the timelines and the grammatical conventions both.
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but mostly on the stable time loop side of things
we havent gone over doomed timelines and how those work for me
im not sure she knows i can do those too if im not careful
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